Ben Wyborn on the joys of the DIY approach, creative autonomy and the south east London scene.

Ben Wyborn has little desire to put the brakes on their long-running and seemingly ever-expanding project. Sixteen months on from the release of ‘The Dreadful Human Tangle’, there’s a new Baggio record in the process of being recorded and enough songs for another one in the notepad already.

“I feel like it’s a step above what we were doing before,” Ben says of the new record. “Part of that is having the experience of being in a band for a few years now and writing songs together. Songs come together easily now because everybody knows how to play with each other. I got better as a songwriter and I think we all got better as players.” They describe the new songs as better, tighter and more considered. A re-worked ‘Crazy Horse’ version of the closer on their last record, ‘Southern Comforts’, was put out in August: “We’ve been playing this version live for a while now, we’re all very comfortable with it and we all enjoy it. We knew we could just go into the studio, get the take and get it out.”

Sonically, Ben sees it as an accurate introduction to the feeling of the next record and a useful bridge between the last release and the forthcoming one. Like the vast majority of their work, it is a song that has evolved on stage – which is bound to happen when you play as many shows as Baggio do.

“If we’re offered a show and we’re about, we’ll usually do it. We just enjoy hanging out and having some beers with each other. In order to do that on a budget we’ll play a thirty minute set — it’s great because we like doing that bit as well!” The idea of the band as a social vehicle crops up frequently throughout our conversation. There’s a pub near their South London rehearsal space which (somehow) sells pint of Guinness for £3.80, so both practice and gigs often double as nights out. “We’re ultimately probably not going to break even. So, let’s just have fun whilst we’re doing it and do it with people who we like spending time with. We just want to hang out and play guitar, that’s very much the Baggio ethos.”

None of that will change as the band gear up to release the next record. They have no interest in losing autonomy over their schedule and bringing in a manager or a booking agent any time soon. “I think that sort of stuff takes away from the joy of making music for me personally. I’d rather put my energy into the community and the people that we can connect with and help with fundraisers and stuff like that than try and get signed and be the biggest band in the world.” Having seen Oasis at Wembley recently, Ben admits that being in the biggest band in the world for a night and having 80,000 people sing your songs back at you would be nice, “but we’re a DIY band and I think we’ll remain a DIY band.”

How they’ll release the record in keeping with these sets of values is something that has been on their mind constantly. Two months ago, York band Rowan and Friends had their album pulled from Spotify after the company flagged it as having artificially inflated streams – something the band were aware of but had no control over and certainly hadn’t had any input in. Scepticism within Baggio towards the platform was already well established and has only been intensified by that incident. Besides, they aren’t convinced that streaming platforms are the necessity that they once were for smaller artists: “A few years ago, it felt like you had to be on them for promotion more than anything — people were finding your music through a tune popping up on a playlist. We’ve reached a point where those playlists feel impenetrable as a DIY artist. People are more likely to stumble upon a show than they are to find a tune on New Music Friday or whatever.” The actual mechanics of how they’ll release the next record haven’t been fully ironed out yet, but Ben is sure that it’ll be different to the more traditional ones of the previous record. “I was quite inspired by the Cindy Lee album last year, just popping it on YouTube with a PayPal link or whatever. There’s a lot to be said for that.”

Even if the powers that be were to see the light and put the masses onto Baggio, that’s not really what the band are going for. “I don’t think being on a playlist or seeing big numbers brings me any joy. The pursuit of seeing that number go up takes away from the joy of making music.” There is one playlist that they were happy to be on, however. Los Campesinos’ frontman Gareth Paisley played ‘Soup’ on Huw Stephens’ roundtable show on 6 Music last year as well as raving about it in his newsletter. “It was such a surprise, it was great! They’re the ultimate inspiration for a DIY band, they can sell out tours and do really big stuff but they’ve remained true to what they believe in,” Ben says.

“I feel like everyone’s really thriving at the moment in different ways,” they say when asked about the bands that they’re keen to champion themselves. “Lilo, who both play in Baggio, are great and their album is probably my most listened to of the year. I adore it. Their release show made me really emotional. It’s nice seeing new bands, there’s friends of mine who I’ve seen play thirty or so times in the past five years and it’s nice now seeing a whole new generation of really good musicians coming into the same venues and the same scene.”

It’s a busy end to the year for Baggio, not that they’ll mind. The “bones” of the new record have been recorded and it’s now time for the rest of the ensemble to put the “fun stuff” over the top. In terms of their live schedule, that varies between a covers set at a friend’s wedding and playing alongside the likes of Public Image Ltd and English Teacher at Rockaway Beach Festival. If Baggio are offered a show and they’re about, they’ll usually do it.